Dating and relationship advice you can really believe in.

it depends on where.If it was a pub then i guess it would be okay to go dutch but if it was a restaurant then i would feel duty bound to pay

Oooh, what a controversial topic! I think both sides should always assume the bill will be split for a first date.

There may still be a pay gap, but arguably the gap has narrowed considerably and until you get to know your date better, you are unlikely to know who earns the most and who has the most disposable income anyway.

As for the ‘women have other costs for clothing and grooming’ comment – no comment! I think this was designed to start some arguments!

In reply to ‘S’ above, I think it’s fine to suggest an alternative location if your date picks somewhere that sounds expensive, and there’s nothing wrong with saying why. I can’t see anyone being offended by this. They can then agree with you or offer to pay.

In some cultures, [Africa for instance] the man in such a situation will consider it as an insult if the lady pays. Generally, either of the two can pay, there is no big deal.

As out of date as shake ‘n’ vac.
What mothers tell their daughters belongs to another generation
Equality is not a one way street: not just on the 1st date either. People go out together unless one expliitly says (s)he is treating the other and if I go out with my friends they wouldn’t expect a free lunch, so why should women?

If the woman earns more should she pay?

If you don’t agree on who/what is right you’re probably not compatible… I like the man to get his wallet out 1st (I want a man who wants to look after me) but I’d pay at the next opportunity.

This is a tricky one, and I don’t know the right answer. I believe in equality for women, but I still think some old-fashioned traditions are worth keeping. I like a man to get his wallet out and pay on a first date, but I will offer to pay half and hope he declines. After the first date, we can discuss it, but I would always be happy to go dutch or pay the whole bill.

You should pay for what you order no matter what your sex.
The man should not be stuck with all the bills and the women be treated like a queen/trophy/god. This makes the man as if he is less significant or inferior to the woman in such that he can be walked all over. because the woman is thinking “oh he’ll buy whatever i want.” That would be a great start for a relationship doomed for failure.

I still believe that the man should pay on the first date, but then I am still very old fashioned! If there are any other dates after that then either the woman can pay or they can split the bill. It is said that first impressions count and this is very true.

If the first date is in a pub then each should pay for alternate rounds. For a meal then it could be split 50/50, or one pay for food the other for the drinks.

I do agree, to a point, with what Gemma says. If one person is travelling then the other could perhaps pay a little more but not necessarily all of it.

What if you are paying out large amounts and one party or the other has decided they have no intention of seeing the other again. That can soon mount up to substantial amounts of first/ second dates in a decent restaurant. A date i took out drank over £30 in wine and just her bill came to over £60, then when it was her turn to pay on the next date she cancelled? This was a second date.

Well now… If a guy askes me out for a meal the I would like to think he would pay for it. Maybe only the first time as it’s quite romantic. It’s split two ways from there on in; until you’re married that is! Then whats his is yours and whats yours it still just yours!!! )

I would always expect to pay my half on a date. It is outdated to assume the man will pay and I would not be comfortable with that. I went on date with someone on here who “forgot” their wallet and left it in the car and so I paid for dinner for us both. He said he was really embarrassed but never offered me the money when we got to the car park or contacted me afterwards! I did not want to see him again anyway but i thought it was rude to not mention it again.

Being old fashioned and a romantic I firmly believe if a man invites you out for dinner that he should pay. I will always offer to contribute and/or will buy drinks afterwards and contribute towards a tip. \I am generous and would always reciprocate by paying on the 2nd date. First impressions are so important. I cannot stand selfishness and people who are mean and use others. Come on guys – what has happened to those knights in shining armour?

Im a guy and to me this isnt a dificult subject, the Man pays. Im only 22 but i still feel that regardless of equality men and woman still have slightly different roles, because we are different (shock horror!!) i think we should pay for the date, and if its seems expensive i’ll grab some overtime at work. i think the woman paying is a big no no, what ever happened to men being gentlman

To me a lot depends on who issued the invitation to meet. If I invite a lady to come out and meet me, then the responsibility for the date is mine, and I should pay. Future dates are different, and a discussion on the matter is central to a long term friendship.

I think on the 1st date the man should offer to pay, especially if the date goes well and there would be the possibility of meeting again. If the lady offered to pay/share I would say -”may be you could pay next time” and pick up the tab. However if the date went badly and the chances are there wouldn’t be a second date, I would go dutch. But I would never expect the lady to pay for the 1st date in full.

The man should always pay when eating out. From the 1st date onwards.

I would always hope the man would offer to pay that is not to say that i wouldnt offer to pay half but i would hope that chivalry is not dead and i would always want to be with a gentleman not a boy.
fo this i would always suggest a local pub or coffee ouse for a first date thus you buy your own drink or coffee and thus stops the problem

If you go into it expecting the man to pay for your half then what kind of respect are you showing? Assume that if you pay your own way (or if you can’t afford the restaurant lifestyle then cook a nice meal) means the man will respect you back.

The dating scene at the moment has a lot of freeloading girls in it, that’s why I never get past a few dates… they take the P. If you want to get dumped, feel free to carry on with that old fashioned bull about it being “romantic” when the man pays.

Romantic is when someone is there for you and cares about you – it isn’t about searching man to treat like a meal ticket and to sponge off.

I beggars belief that I’m reading that men are ‘petty’ if they don’t have deep pockets enough to pay for everything. Strewth.

If I take my date to a restaurant I’d like to pay the bill myself but if the girl wants to pay for herself I won’t stop her because if I stop her then she will think I’m trying to buy her with my money. Well thats what I think.

I’m confused with the idea of having the first or all your meals paid for by your man? Why is this a requirement? Surely it’s better to find a man who cares for you? Who will take time off work when you are going into hospital or have an interview? That’s what I did in my last serious relationship for my ex.

As well as pay for just about every meal we had when we went out and in return she would often cook me tea.

But if at the outset I’d hear from a girl that she had expectations of never paying for a meal, I’d think she was just after a meal ticket and wasn’t after a relationship but a man who can wine/dine and entertain her. How shallow! And why does a man paying for meals equate to “making an effort” – it’s easy for the bloke with a well paid job and a struggle for the the bloke who earns peanuts. The best things in a relationship cost nothing and the best man (or woman) isn’t the one who can afford to keep you in the meal style your accustomed to – the best man is the one who will be there for you even if he can’t afford to pay more than just his share of the meal bills.

when you love someone you also don’t want to hurt their wallet.

You haven’t experienced what us blokes go through, there are LOADS of girls on these sites just going from one man to the next and doing their level best to pay for nothing, not even a drink when you first meet up. After a few dates where they have paid for nothing and never done any driving and are just a complete freeloader, I just walk away, as would any sensible man especially as there are girls out there who do drive, do pay and do text afterwards saying thank you if you did buy them a meal. It’s a simple choice, why would I date someone who “doesn’t want their purse to be hurt” when I have plenty of alternatives. And why is your purse to go unhurt? So you have more money to spend on clothes?

I am still shocked that there are such girls out there too. I have heard stories but I don’t know any girls are like that. None of my girl friends are. That’s why I really don’t understand why some of the men so hesitate getting their wallet out. Because I know some of them think women take advantage, that’s one of the reasons I even paid for my dates so to convince them I am not one of those girls and it does upset me.

I wouldn’t believe what your guy friends say. If a guy is just after a “little something” – I assume you mean a quick fling he’s probably a player in which case he’s more likely to take the risk free route of paying for everything especially as it’s not a long term commitment and he’ll be walking away once he’s had his “little something”!

A bloke who is serious and ‘interested’ will be very concerned if his date never wants to dip into her purse as it isn’t a the foundation for a long term relationship.

Next time I go on a date and we go out for a meal, I’ll let her pay and tell her that my friends tell me that if she’s seriously interested in me then she will just “take care of the bill” otherwise I’ll assume she’s just after a “little something”!

So I guess being a gentleman is a thing of the past? Honestly, people are slipping down the path of materialism. Alas I am still honourable and I have pride!!! I would pick up the bill every time I took a lady to dinner.

Why on earth does a man not paying for all the bill make him “being a gentleman a thing of the past” – sounds like some rubbish emotional blackmail to con us men into paying for someone else’s meal ticket. I’m not buying into this sentimental rubbish that not letting a woman pay means I become a “gentleman”.

I am honourable to and have pride but that has nothing to do with how much I spend on someone. My honour and pride is in the way I care for people, at that is something that isn’t paid for on a credit card.

I think it’s those kind of old fashioned views that build up resentment. If thinks aren’t equal then someone eventually feels they are being cheated/used/sponged off.

Jeez, there are some sexist views on here. This is why I like to just go for a drink on the first date, that way you can alternate paying for rounds. If you do go for a meal you can split the bill or one pay for food the other for drinks. The only time I’d expect my date to pay was if he wanted to eat at a really expensive restaurant that I couldn’t afford. Even then I’d still be prepared to contribute but would expect him to pay a bigger share, vice versa if it was the other way around.

The man is a “miser” and “petty” about getting his wallet out? but if his date thinks that then she has double standards. I think you are just out to wind us all up because there is no logic to your argument!

And if someone loves you then they pay for your meal? Perhaps if someone cares about you then they only take you to a restaurant that’s within your means.

Liz, what point are you trying to make? as I don’t understand your comment. Are you suggesting a woman shouldn’t pay her share in case she never sees him again!!!? Surely you aren’t suggesting such shallow, cynical and cheap behaviour?

To Nassar- I understand your point although isn’t it a bit shallow to believe that paying a dinner bill every time makes of a man a gentleman or an honourable person? to me, giving a good attention to my date, complimenting her, opening the door, being a good listener / talker , accepting to let her pay as well… these qualities are the important ones to define a modern and honourable gentleman. Modern women earn money as much as men, I do not see any reason why a man should hurt his wallet more than a woman on a date.
To Liz: as Steve, I do not really understand your comment.

I think if two people are agreeing to go on a date, then two people agree that they have a prt to play/pay!

I see it as fair for the bill to be shared.

J – that sounds like fair play to me.

I think this should be based on a case by case basis. If it was obvious the date was going well and there is a good change you are going to see each other again, I believe the man should pay (it will get him a lot of brownie points and displays good characters), but if the date looks like your not going to see be meeting again, i think its only fair to 50/50.

Firstly us sisters must stick togever! Lets stop all this rubbish about women after a meal ticket. What most women want is a decent and respectful man. I love romance who doesnt? I agree with Ellen if he is a twat then let him pay and also celaine points.Theres alot to be said for chivalry and tradition!! It seems to be an issue of trust with many men rather than who pays.I do understand if you have been taken advantage of in the past it makes people wary and cautious.

” I believe the man should pay (it will get him a lot of brownie points and displays good characters), ”
- I think that’s a strange way to evaluate if a man has a good character. I’d say it more likely reflects on the ‘lady’ having a bad character if she goes down this route of free loading off her ‘date’.

Steve, the simple fact is you are WRONG. It’s about standards, appreciation and playing a part to become a couple. The simple fact is you don’t have to break the bank, it’s not about the money. As I have already stated you could take her for a picnic and she would probably enjoy it more than a high class restaurant. It’s about making that extra effort. She will probably spend hours getting ready, buy a new frock, go to the hairdressers and if your very lucky get someone to look after the kids instead of bringing them along so you have to pay more on the meal. If you are so hung up about money, let me suggest something very simple and that will definitely make you happy. Stay at home and stay single. Good luck… :-0

hmmm so in order to become a couple it’s about money? not about being there for someone? John your views sound very dated and sexist – all this “hours spent getting ready” and in return the man buys her a meal.

Nope I’m not hung up about money – it’s an opinion, it’s about morals.

Chris, I think no-one should expect someone else to pay for them and I think if one person pays this has no effect on the outcome.

And if you do pay for your lady’s meal (because she is the type that doesn’t pay) – when she moves on to her next date/relationship because she found a man who has more money/a more flash car etc – you’re going to feel like you’ve been taken advantage of. Unless you believe the type of girl who expects a man to pay isn’t shallow.

Thanks for patronising me but no I have no issues hanging over from previous relationships and I won’t have my opinions attempted to be negated by someone who doesn’t know me suggesting I do have. And as you’re getting personal, I have lived with someone so don’t require your advice on how that works either.

And as you say, I like to be paid for on a first date too. Doesn’t everyone!

The man pays for the first, the lady the second.

If I went on a first date and then ended up having to pay for it, there’s NO WAY I’d see him again. I’d be so offended, I’d probably just walk out. It indicates that a) the man is financially inept (why else would he have an issue?) or b) he’s rude and immature or c) he doesn’t think I was worth meeting. Nice.

Incidentally I am very well known for being too generous, before the ‘shallow’ argument starts here.

Anyway, I (like so many other non-shallow females) shall save myself for someone mature and wonderful, for whom, it doesn’t even occur to them to sit there and try to work out if I am worth a fiver or not.

Frankly, if you’re lovely company and decent enough to pay for the first date without quibble, then why wouldn’t you get a second date?

Well it all depends…

I personally ALWAYS offer to pay for the ladies meal, I feel it is simply the gentlemanly thing to do.

If the lady refuses and declares sexism obviously I back off.

But even in 2010 whats wrong with a woman being a lady and a man being a gentleman?

I guess those men that buy things and constantly remind the woman of the things he has done for her, will come across like the idiot he probably is.

I completely agree you Charlie, what is wrong with a woman being a ‘lady’ and a man being a ‘gentleman’? I do feel that money has become the focus of what determines this. A woman who obtains free meals through the process of dating is no ‘lady’ and sadly, as is so often the case, the minority reflect negatively upon the majority. That being said we must remember the men out there who also try to obtain sex through the process of paying for first dates, that is no ‘gentleman’. The point I am try to articulte, perhaps not very clearly is that in my opinion there are some unkind people out there but also some very good ones. A first date is the first step in finding out if you are compatible. I would expect to pay half and would do so gladly but would feel honoured if my date refused to accept as it would display generousity. HOWEVER I would in turn insist on treating him next time! To display my generousity in return. Chivalry and romance are key to a successful relationship but I do agree with points made by both John, East Sussex and Steve,Manchester the amount spent does not have to reflect this. A romantic walk or home cooked meal can say so much. Certainly, taking a day off work if I had interview would make feel cherished.

I was astonished when I got to the pub with my date and I politely said quietly – oh, you have driven here (it was not that far) shall I pay for the first drinks – and he straight away said okay!
In hindsight I believe even then that he had made up his mind that I was not his type and so we only stopped for that one drink and I never heard from him again. I felt this was so rude of him, having a free night out, when I had hardly any money and really could not afford to pay for those drinks – I had to be careful with what I spent the rest of that week, whereas it would have been nothing for him to pay with his job.
I had spent hours getting ready and being really nervous – it was only the second date I had been on!
The first date would not hear of me paying for drinks – a real gentlemen, even though we were not completely suited we enjoyed our evening together and made the most of it.
I would never offer to pay for the first drink again. I would however offer to pay for a second drink if things were going well!

And it can get expensive if you’re meeting people, finding out about them and then after a few dates realise/find out that they aren’t over their ex or are multi dating – a common thing on these sites. Dinner could easily get close to £100 when you include wine. That’s fine for me as I’m looking for someone long term but flippin’ aggravating if my date isn’t serious about becoming a couple and is either dating other men or waiting for her ex to get back in touch!

I don’t think it’s about going out to get a free meal, I think it’s more a lifestyle choice – they are players who aren’t really in the market for anything serious and they enjoy going from one man to the next contributing as little as possible while enjoying being entertained. They are using it as a social life more than a way of seeking someone for a possible future together – in my opinion.

Also there are some men out there who are similar – players just going from one girl to the next and also these men are not looking for anything serious and are just out to get what they can.

And there are really decent, sincere men and women out there who are the ones we all are looking for. I’ve been fortunate to meet a few of those.

Such a long discussion… I think it really depends on what you earn at that particular moment. If I initiated a date, I would suggest exhibition / coffee / a day out, something that wouldn’t require a big spend on anyone’s part. If you like each other, you can do dinner after. I wouldn’t want anyone to spend a lot of money on me if I wasn’t interested in them. It just makes me feel uncomfortable. I always take my wallet out on first dates, but I feel too embarrassed to offer paying. I would have no problem buying drinks or tickets for a date, meal somehow is a weird one. It would be awkward if my date asked me to pay towards more than tips. I think at the start of the relationship, man should definitely pay for restaurants, however I wouldn’t expect to be taken to any expensive places or suggest going for a meal unless I was very hungry and prepared to pay If things go well, I’m also a very good cook and will be happy to pay for dinner for both when I’m comfortable with that person. Going dutch is a bit weird I think. It’s just cold and too rational, dating shouldn’t be rational and cold. I have to agree with people who say when man pays on the first date it shows he likes you and I will always say thank you if I had a good time. Guys, you just have to give that one a leap of faith. If you liked spending time with your date and if you feel dinner is the best date plan you shouldn’t have any issues paying for it. If you not prepared to pay for a dinner there’s lots of other good ideas for a date that are less expensive and will make going dutch less awkward.

I would never want a man to pay for me. It’s just ridiculous! I suppose the only exception would be if I knew he was hugely rich compared to me. But in general, it’s likely we’re going to have similar incomes, so why should he foot the bill?

To be honest I would find it pretty insulting if he insisted on paying.

i think it is totally down to each individual situation, the laat relationship i was in i remember paying on the first date because although he asked me out i chose the venue nd time etc, after that we tended to take it in turns. i have no porblem in letting a man pay but i know that some people think that they then owe the man which isnt a healthy way to start a relationship (not my experience but a friends) and believe me it didnt work out for them in the end. however if the guy is willing to pay then the girl should graciously accept then offer to pay for a trip next time or something. bit of a long rant but me and my friends debate this a lot

Any relationship at any stage is about going 50/50 so to me dates are not different. I find it really patronising – and not romantic! – when a guy believes that they should pay for everything and open the door for you and blah blah blah you should feel “lucky”! I would rather date someone whose priority (right from the start as yes, 1st impressions do count!) is to find his companion and not his doll. And, as a girl, I am also looking for a real companion not a guy I can use as a financial aid and loneliness buster in exchange of a smile and some home cooking.
I don’t like guys who need to show off in order to get girls or that think that opening a door equals knight in shinning armour (??) I mean, if that’s the best you can do then sorry, no offence but you can’t really do much, can you? Equally, I don’t understand girls who feel they should slave in the kitchen and giggle silly at their every word or whatever in order to repay or please them.
Anyways, my 1st date would defo not be on a restaurant though! A coffee shop or quirky bistro would be much better!
Personally, I would not want to date a book of manners with a wallet but a genuine, intresting and charismatic guy with a mind of his own. If he is a multi-millionare then good on him lol but I would rather not find out until I fell for who he is inside

And why would you like to go with “tradition”? Is there any logical argument you can offer to back that up? Other than my suggestion that the “drinks” would likely be substantially cheaper!

I don’t think Marie was objecting to having doors opened for her but perhaps the idea that buying meals, opening doors etc was the making of a man when in reality these are easy jestures and real jestures of love/companionship are when you are true companions.

I also will never let a door shut into someone – it’s basic manners.

When dating I always use my calculator to evenly divide the bill (including my travel expenses). I then issue an invoice to the other party which she has 30 days to pay in full or her details will be passed to a debt collection agency & her future credit rating may be adversely affected. I issue her a receipt if requested & keep all relevant paperwork to file with my accountant. Time is money people.

Rob, I’ve also had lots of good experiences!

And going with the flow is roughly what I do and like you if I reach a point where it appears I’m the only one paying for stuff or cooking then I lose interest. Fortunately the free loaders are usually obvious within the first couple of dates.

At the rate this site works though, it looks like dating is going to be very cheap! The majority of my matches don’t have a photo or if they do, they are unable to communicate probably due to being tighwads!

yeah you’re right Cat, some people can let their subscription expire and forget to turn off matching.

People,
Time is money, dating is a barren desert of uncertanty & mediocrity, only the ruthless hunter survives.
Try dating ‘The Joey Way®’ for guaranteed success.

Lots of very valid points here. Not sure there is a right or wrong answer, I think you just see how you feel at the time. I have only been on 2 dates so far, and both times I assumed (I am female), that the bill would be split for the first date. That said though, if you go on multiple dates and it starts to move towards a relationship then obviously it can be he pays/you pay next time kind of deal. Personally, there are some people on here who are seriously looking for a partner and may need to meet a few before they meet a compatible one. Therefore, if the guy were to pay everytime, he could be pretty out of pocket. Like previous people have said…if I go out with my mates, I dont expect them to pay! And if I have paid my share, then if I have had a good time but do not feel that it should go further, I feel more confident saying so, when I know I the date was ‘equal’. May be a weird stand point, but I can only say how I feel.

Wow, there is a lot of controversy on this subject! You have all got me really worried now…I have been chatting to guy on this site for quite a few weeks now and we are meeting up this week for the first time. It was his idea to meet up, but as neither of us are drinking I suggested we have some pub grub instead. Now I am panicking about what happens with the bill! I would always offer (and would prefer to pay half), but I don’t want him to feel obliged. After all it was my idea to go for food! Should I let him know before the date that I am more than happy to pay my way? Or am I killing all romance before the date has even started?! Help please!!

It is very sweet and thoughtful if the gentleman always offers to pay. I prefer all or nothing – I think going dutch is extremely unromantic, especially in the first few dates. When my date offers to split the bill, I offer to pay all of it instead as splitting the bill is such a turn off, it ruins the atmosphere of the date. Even more so when the guys keeps asking to go ‘halfsies’. These boys never progress beyond first date!When my brother (or other gentleman) has a girlfriend, they are always saving up to take them out or buy them something pretty. And that does make us feel cherished and adored!

i earn more then men that i have met, yet, i find it uncomfortable to insist paying for dinner. men should pay for dinner, its a gentlemanly thing to do.

no matter what century we now live in, what is wrong with a man pursuing a woman in an old fashioned way? including paying for drinks/dinner. doesnt it show that he will care for her and look after her in the long run?

of course once the relationship is established, women should be more involved with the pulling out of purses and sharing.

However high earner I might be, at the end of the day I want to date a man who is intelligent,powerful, generous and warm.
Splitting first bill on a first date kills any romance in me.
It gives this message that the man is pessimistic and calculative,and in a weak position, not warm and open, not ready to share, hence passion gone. I feel that he is not interested in me. Man is a man and woman is a woman. Centuries comes and goes but rule of nature stays the same!!

Here’s an interesting one- I visited the UK for the first time, and stayed for a month. Before the visit I had connected with a couple guys from dating sites. One just didn’t work but we still are friends. The other – we emailed every day for a good month before the trip, then met up and got along great. Except! He paid for first date, then to my shock we alternated. I mean religiously alternated. I met many people on the trip and nobody ever let me pay. Now phone calls are religiously alternated. He is well paid. And lives with his mother… Somehow I just didn’t feel ‘looked after’.

On the first date I would always expect the offer for the man to pay all of it. In relationships past I was always the one to pay for everything, which at the time I didn’t mind, but looking back I feel like a fool. I would never want to pay the whole bill for this reason, however would offer every time to pay for what i have eaten/drank. After all, If you cant afford to pay for what you have had, you shouldn’t have had it in the first place…

A gentleman should offer to pay, no question. It is the polite thing to do, and demonstrates that he respects his date.

I’m single, 40, traditional. Guy should invite a lady properly. e.g. I’d love to meet you. May I take you on a date? That is CLEAR – he invites and pays! But… I would offer out of ‘politeness’ to buy a drink or pay for something! I don’t earn much and it’s shocking if a guy accepts! It means no 2nd date. If you invite someone out and say you’d like to treat them – do it!! Don’t be a tight arse and accept a drink. Especially guys dating single mums who have part time jobs (earn little) and kids to support. If you’re working full time you should be able to pay for the whole date without her contribution. Surely? Otherwise I would immediately interpret this as ‘selfish’, not interested and totally thoughtless. It also indicates the man is obviously going on alot of dates (and I’m just another) so he needs to cut corners because I’m really not important!

Ladies, we should all be prepared to pay our way,even if the man invited you on a date. I would always offer to split the bill, it makes it clear where everyone stands. I would accept if he offered to pay, but the next date (if there was one) I would treat him.

A woman who equates chivalry and gentlemanly behaviour with the flash of a credit card is the biggest turn-off for me. In my experience the women who earn the most are the worst offenders in this respect.